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  • vallabhu
    04-07 02:00 PM
    Situation definitely requires some action from Congress, H1B program was introduced to help

    American Corporates so they can hire best resources from all over the world where Americans

    are not available, American Corps started taking undue advantage by hiring even if Citizens

    were available just because they are getting H1's for lesser price, and showed this

    miserable path to desi companies who abused it further.

    If the current situation (with out this bill by just adding more h1's) continues not only US

    economy will suffer (The number of available right people for any job will be less as hey

    would be working for some desi company making 20$ an hour) even H1 aspirants will start

    suffering upon Arrival to US and also those who live here will suffer from immense

    competition (Just because of the reason that every job posting will be flooded with 1000's

    of resumes and only lucky ones get picked you may be best but your resume has to be picked

    for an interview call), as the number of jobs are lesser than people coming.


    Unlimited H1 may be a solution but it is not practical, If the numbers are available then

    desi companies won't bother to file so many applications without actual job, it makes

    situation better for new H1's coming to US they will have a job instead to joining a desi

    company and sitting on bench for long time(after quitting their job in India)

    Coming to this Bill, Even if it is so threatening they have some good points to bring curbs

    on H1 Employers who bring them here without actual job, People who are destined to come to

    us will come for a better life.

    IF Durbin wants to help US he has to make bill which is practical and should address how up

    clean up existing mess, This bill is not practical and will definitely face lot of

    opposition.

    Unfortunately politicians in any country have to take decisions based on how it is going to

    gain their party and in terms of votes and later how is it good for the Country, they will

    have lot of pressure from various other factors which we don't understand and they don't

    understand us.

    Their decisions are based on the data they have available with provided by few agencies whom

    they trust and closely work with, If they are taking a wrong decision that means either they

    don't have complete data or not properly educated. as we are getting affected It becomes our

    responsibility to provide them complete data and educate them totally of the situation, so

    they make a correct decision and address the issue, and to do that in US affectively we will

    need millions of $'s.

    For bill to be more practical it should address 500,000 people who are living here for past

    several years and who's kids are US Citizens and also own homes. And also American Companies

    who are utilizing skills of these people.



    If 500,000 contribute 20 $ each we will have 10 Million and we can make ammendments the way

    we want it to be.

    If 10000 members contribute 100 $ each we will have 1 million which is not bad but this not

    practical either.


    My final Cut even if this kind bill passes or another bill with more h1's passes we will be

    in same situation, the best for us could be this kind of bill with more practicality.

    So with our limited resources we will have to do what we can and give all our efforts (Call

    your senators) and leave the rest to god.


    I tried to mobilize couple of my friends, they are like "No, take it easy this will not

    happen" if this is the attitude guys remember you have something in your hands today and if

    the bill passes in its current form even if you want to contribute 5000$ to stay in this

    country you will not be able to do that as all of us would be packing to go back.





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  • NKR
    10-03 04:09 PM
    The choice between Obama and Mccain is not good and better but between worse and worst, or lesser of the two evils. Mccain might not do anything for us but he might not do anything bad either, with Obama\Dirbin CIR there is only bad and nothing good for EB.

    Let us give Obama a chance and see what he does… We are already in deep shit and nothing worse can happen





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  • lost_in_migration
    04-07 08:22 PM
    The point missed here is most of us have our GC applications pending at a stage in which we cannot change employers... If we had our GCs we didn't had to worry about this bill ..and a lot of things :(

    I am not sure why we are worrying about this bill. This makes restrictions on Consulting companies, so what Clients won't be able to find people, so they do hire people as full time instead of temporary consulting position. That is good for us we can find more full time positions from client it self. I even heard that this bill makes sure H1B are paid by market rates instead of DOL wages which are often very less than market value. Good thing for us the staring salaries would be at higher rate than present rates. This bill is bad for consulting companies but good for us. Am i missing any thing here??





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  • krishna.ahd
    01-06 04:14 PM
    Didn't Narendra Modi followed the footstep of Isreali counterparts by killing innocents in Gujarat?

    Its upto Indians to decide which type of leaders we need. Like Gandhi or Modi.

    Modi is elected CM by people of Gujarat , also third time in a row, so you know now what people of Gujarat wants.



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  • pappu
    04-07 05:22 AM
    I guess the only way US of A will ever understand its worth in the world is when: (I am just referring to hypocritical US of A'ans, there are good people too.)

    1) India and China stop sending so many Engineers and doctors.
    2) China and south-east Asia stop supplying Nike's and toilet paper to Walmart's


    I guess the positive side of this H1 bill will be further development of Indian and Chinese economies via decreased brain-drain. I guess it already slowed down (to a trickle?!) quite a bit in the past few years and I Hope this bill plugs the leaks too. Hurray! No more brain drain from India and China.

    Why didn't this happen a few years ago and I wouldn't even have had any regrets being in US of A ever. Yikes!
    please update your profile with full details. We cannot allow profiles with email addresses like name@name.com and no inormation about yourself. Despite repeated requests members have not updated their profiles. We maybe calling members on the forum now publicly so that they update their profiles. When we send out newsletters for any important announcement, they bounce due to email addresses like name@name.com





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  • GCapplicant
    07-14 09:26 AM
    Why is EB3 India unhappy?

    The impression I am getting from all posts is that EB3 is unhappy because EB2 got 2 year advancement in dates. EB3 is unhappy not because of their own retrogression but because someone else is happy being current.

    The reason is not justified. EB3 should be unhappy for its own retrogression and not because someone else in EB2 is current. I see a lot of EB3India guys waking up now to the reality and protesting just because EB2 is getting greencads. This approach is wrong. Where were all of you all these months when IV was asking letters for admin fixes? A lot of us were busy enjoying our EADs and suddenly everyone is woken up. Where were all these guys when visa bulletin came every month and dates did not move?

    I would support an action item for us EB3 folks only when it is based on the genuine reasons of EB retrogression. If it is based on the reason of EB2 getting greencards and EB3 not getting greencards, it is a wrong immature reason and USCIS or any authority capable of decision making will not like it.

    EAD cannot give a solution.We knew that from day 1 .EB3 is unhappy because we havnt got any movement.Will any EB2 here support our cause.I am seeing forums where they have alreday started tracking their LUD's.Fine...Human mentality is when they are out of the problem nobody will turn back.Just becoz we are making fuss out of here there are one or two getting ready to point on us that we are unhappy.How do you expect us to be happy?

    How long we have to wait?

    3 solid years I was waiting for my 45 day letter then it took 6 months to get my labor approval.atleast if it had moved same like EB2 we can again sit and watch the show.

    Fine ,even I feel , this EB2 movement if taken as a possitive movement ,I can expect EB3 ROW to be current by Oct 2008.When they interpret the spillover will that help EB3 single state to move.
    Sometimes I do feel this has been done to fail the bills and break the team effort by IV-see how we are questioning ourselves-right? but will any Eb2 care for us-its our mistake to apply in EB3 and beleiving the old tradition.

    How many of us are there since 2001 nov.any answer.How long can we wait?its impossible.



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  • dixie
    07-16 12:38 PM
    If you go to anti-H1-b sites, They are displaying things like, Advertisements listing H1-b available for a number of US cities. These are ads taken from body shops. The anti-h1-b sites use this as a propaganda. I think it hurts all of us. :D

    Exactly.Anti-H1B sites are only looking for propaganda material. You think they will start loving us if all body-shops are eliminated ? People like Norm matloff and programmers guild oppose all H1-B period.Whether it is from well known MNCs or your so-called "body shops". These are usually the same folks whining against outsourcing, free trade, the fact that everyone else is catching up .. about the world in general. Stop wasting time convincing these loosers.They are neither representative of the american public at large nor are the body shops representative of our community. If you think body shoppers are the only folks who hire H1-Bs, read about all the press articles in the "IV in the news" section and please let me know how many body-shop employees were mentioned there. We KNOW we make a contribution to this country; industry knows it too. We dont need to apologise to people like PG,lou dobbs and co for supposedly "eating their lunch".

    As for pushing for H1-B reform, there is absolutely no gaurantee there will be any accompaying GC reform. Remember AC21 ? it tripled the number of H1-Bs with no increase in GCs ... the result is the current mess. Why did it happen ? because there was no one pushing for GC reform.





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  • WaitingForMyGC
    08-06 05:05 PM
    Hi All, To avoid forgetting important occassions in your life and my wishing you on these occasions,
    I have come up with this "Generic Wish/Sorry template" .Now do not complain that I have not wished or said sorry to you on these occassions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Please read this mail everyday
    Is today your birthday? Happy birthday! We Wish you many may happy returns of the Day to you!

    Is today your anniversary? Happy Anniversary! We wish many such beautiful and happy year of togetherness for both of you!

    Is today a birthday of any of your family member? Happy birthday to "........................." (Write name of your family member)

    We Wish you many may happy returns of the Day to "........................." !(Write name of your family member)

    Is today an important festival? Happy "..............." to you and your family. (Please enter name of the festival here)

    -Congratulations on your son/daughter becoming potty trained.

    -Congratulations on your son/daughter's (1st ...234,567,980 th) step.

    -Congratulations on your son/daughter passing (First..tenth) grade with grade (A.....F).

    -Congratulations on your promotion. -Sorry to hear that your junior got double-promotion and he is your boss now.

    -Congratulations to your Junior on his promotion(He is my kid's friend)

    -Sorry to hear that your project got over.

    -Sorry to hear about your unpaid bills.

    -Congratulations..on getting new project ..is it long term ?

    -Sorry to hear that your project got cancelled.

    -Congratulations on getting new project again..is it long term ?

    -Congratulation this project did not got cancelled.

    -Congratulations on your new house.

    -Sorry to hear that your loan-mortgage got rejected.

    -Congratulations on your 2nd baby.

    -Sorry to hear that you are expecting 3rd one.

    -Sorry to hear that they are twins.

    -Congratulations..your wife got the JOB.Congratulations Bhabhiji !!!.

    -Sorry to hear that you are still paying her shopping bills.Once again..Congratulations Bhabhiji !!!.

    -Sorry to hear that your son/daughter did not get the scholarship for college.

    -Congratulations..your son/daughter doesn't want to go to college.

    For coming years(another 25-30 yrs)...
    - Sorry to hear about your premature retirement(VRS)/suspension.I know all those corruption charges are false and politically motivated.How long is the jail term ? Get on your feets again.

    -Sorry to hear that you fell in the bathroom and fractured your back/legs..get well soon.

    - Sorry to hear that your daughter is not willing to run away and she wants to have arrange marriage.Big blow to your already depleted bank balance.I hope you saved enough when working (If corruption charges were to be true). Have a big heart..old man.

    -Sorry to hear that you had heart attack..but just to make you feel good..cancer is more painful and so is Piles.You should consider yourself lucky that you had heart attack. Get well soon...stand upright.

    -Sorry to hear that you lost your mojo(vitality) completely.Don't try blue pill(Viagra) since you are a heart patient. Just to humor you; many of my old age friends use blue pill just not to pee on their legs. :-)

    -Congratulations..I heard you got it back although for couple of minutes. How was the feeling ??Did you make most out of it?

    -Sorry to hear that you wasted it and got a stress fracture in your hand due to that.

    -Sorry to hear about your wife's arthritis. Now she may not be able to walk alongside you in all the ups & downs of your life.

    -Sorry to hear that your daughter-in-law is misbehaving with you...may God forgive her and give her good sense.

    -Sorry to hear that you haven't eaten for days now, please find attached photographs of delicious dishes. Please do not open dessert attachment if you are diabetic or non-vegetarian one if you are a vegetarian. Please reply how were they? Better than nothing..right?

    -Sorry to hear that everyone has come to know about your illicit affair and illegal child...May God forgive you.I know it was just a fling, a one-time thing..went wrong.Take proper care/precautions next time.

    - Sorry to hear that your son has thrown you out of your house ..get back soon.

    -Sorry to hear that your illegal child has also kicked you out of his illegal encroached house.

    -Sorry to hear he also disowned you.(Tell him that he is illegal and not you..he cannot disown you , you can).

    -Sorry to hear about fight between your wife and your mistress(mother of your illegal child)..no one is ready to keep you with her( not even your keep). ..Don't lose your heart ..buddy.


    -Sorry to hear that you had a heart attack(major) again( told you not to try blue pill and stop seeing your mistress) and you ran out of your insurance..get well soon..please TRY.

    -Congratulations..old man.You survived 3rd heart attack.You are awesome.

    -Sorry to hear about your sad demise(due to cold-flu)..sorry friend that I don't remember your name(I am running out of memory- just to humor you ...yesterday( or was it 5yrs back) I forgot my wife's name and called her Kareena Kapoor :-) .But were you the one with heart problem or cancer ? Though..none matters now..but nonetheless you were a great man..a great friend..a true admirer of beauty .. father to many(knowns and unknowns)..a man of impeccable character..may GOD rest your soul in peace.Please do not care to reply.Take rest.See yaa soon.



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  • texcan
    08-05 01:13 PM
    I only read a few posts, but seems like there a lot of moral blasting and blame game going on.

    I am in favor of fair practices, and on that principle everyone has right to speak their mind; irrespective of outcome of this thread, why is everyone fighting with each other ? We are here because of some common cause, and even though we have a common cause, all causes are not common.

    I agree with you Rolling_Flood, this porting option can and actually has created trouble for many people who did not have a way to port priority dates. This is same issuse as "Labor substitution", I am glad labor substitution has been put to rest.

    Rolling_flood, donot get annoyed or angry because of some comments ( everyone has a right to speak as you do). remember the saying " if you have a few enemies; that means you stood up for something some day".

    Folks,
    Please donot kill each other ...let people speak, this is least we can do for each other.
    We are together for a reason, and we are using all reasons we can to fight with each other because we are together..right.
    Please let people speak their thoughts and minds. donot start blame game (mine is bigger than yours)


    Our focus should be on purpose and not get frustrated by process.





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  • abracadabra102
    01-06 05:36 PM
    If we take out the religion from equation, Israelis and Palestines are one people. They belong to same genetic pool and lived together for hundreds of years. In fact it was an Arab Calipha who allowed jews back into israel/palestine area after jews were ejected from this area by Romans. It is a pity they ended up like Indians and Pakistanis (same genetic pool again). Having said that, it is Arab countries that screwed Palestine people after 1948 war with Israel. Israel was willing for a compromise and creation of Palestine.

    Taken from wikipedia:

    "Following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, the 1949 Armistice Agreements between Israel and neighboring Arab states eliminated Palestine as a distinct territory. With the establishment of Israel, the remaining lands were divided amongst Egypt, Syria and Jordan. The Arab governments at this point refused to set up a State of Palestine."

    complete article with several cross references here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine).

    Israel is doing what is required of a nation when attacked. It is sad that innocent children are dying. But I do not see any better options left open for Israel. Offcourse they could have done what India does - whine for a few months, complain to every Tom, Dick and Harry and then shut up. But not every one is spineless.



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  • rajnag21
    07-19 02:38 PM
    UN,
    This is a question to you. I was one of those guys who sent you a PM. Sorry again !
    What if a person who has been in the country for a while(say from 2000) has a few pay stubs missing and period/s of unemployment(2002 and 2003) and therefore his w2's for say 2003,2004,2005 have like 15-30 k figures on them. This is for a software engineer who is on eb3 with a employment letter that states pay should be abut 50 k or so (minimum). Now lets suppose the said person went out of the country and came back in Jan 2006.
    So Does means according to the 245i rule the previous period of unemployment etc get wiped off and they have to look at whether he has violated the 180 day rule only since Jan 2006 ? In this case will they look at his all his old w2's as well? Will this constitute some sort of violation ?

    Thanks in advance for your answers





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  • posmd
    07-08 04:56 PM
    Nice to hear you are still in the background UN.



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  • bobzibub
    12-27 11:06 PM
    Please don't advocate war.

    A human death is a human death. Whether the fig leaf of state or some extremist views are used, it matters not to the mother who loses her kids. Bombs from planes are no better than bombs on belts. They just get better press.

    When you are attacked it is natural to want to respond to those attacks. That stems from your ancestors (as mine) who lived in some tribe struggling for life with scarce resources. But we know the results of this primitive thinking: look to the Americans.

    The Americans after 9/11 had such a blood lust that they attacked an unrelated country, killed a million civilians and will probably cost the US $3T all told. Iraq was bombed to the stone age and they are now a mess, no matter what their implausibly hopeful government claims. All because Americans and their institutions collectively lost their facility for critical thought. Their great thinkers "rationalized" themselves into a stupid, illegal war. And their militarist politicians and their corporate pals profited from terrorism every bit as much as Bin Laden. (For that they can rot in hell. But a cell in the Hague first.)

    If India attacks Pakistan, which many here seem to advocate, it will kill many more innocent civilians on both sides. War is a blunt instrument and will not have the intended consequences. Let no one pretend otherwise.

    If India can defeat the entire British Empire without firing a weapon, I can't believe that there isn't an ingenuitive solution to this mess. I can't believe that Indians and Pakistanis can't be the ones to solve it without weapons, especially nuclear ones.

    Nuclear weapons technology is old. Soon every country (and undergraduate engineering student) will posses the knowledge to build them. Yet if we continue to handle disputes in the same way that was bred into us when our people hunted on some African plane, it will be the end of all of us.





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  • nojoke
    04-30 02:37 AM
    http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/29/real_estate/housing_price_fall_deepens/?postversion=2008042912
    http://www.wsbtv.com/video/16065351/index.html

    Strap on your seat belts. This is going to be a rough ride...



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  • NKR
    09-30 02:26 PM
    Yes, you are right, the recent 485 denials for people using AC-21 have nothing to do with Obama/Durbin immigtaion policy. But I kind of remember there were some harsh provisions for people using AC 21 in CIR 2007 version. I am trying to find out the details about it.
    Correct me if I am wrong.

    I just do not understand this part, why would they provide something and ask us not to use it. It is like giving you a piece of cake and telling you not to eat it. This whole thing sucks, they are making it harder for people who live by the law of the land.





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  • hopefulgc
    08-06 11:13 PM
    Abe.. lets call it "manhole".

    coz these days the environment is no better than that :D:D:D

    Mohol --> :D



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  • cinqsit
    03-26 03:52 PM
    UnitedNations

    What I take from your reply is that if the company is on their radar (for reasons that they will never disclose or we will never know - but we can assume some kind of fraudulent activity - like what you suggest too many h1's etc) they can (and currently are for h1 applications) apply all of their might to deny applications.

    Most of us have become pompous and are living in a big bubble. We think that since we pay taxes we are special. I cant imagine how out of touch with reality we are ....when I see postings like these for example remove EB1/EB2/EB3..whatever classification quota since we "the special class" of people are suffering, remove per country limit since we have paid taxes for 10 years, we will solve the housing crisis if we get gc's, we are responsible for creating innovation, progress and jobs (though i agree small percentage of the total pool may well be responsible for some innovation but not all), we are some sort of super humans , calling up senators/congressman - wont they be more interested in protecting their constituent's -- who I hate to say is not us (that is would be immigrants)

    Isn't it time for everyone to wake up and see the reality ? Why exacerbate the current conditions that will create even a bigger backlash? can we all handle that ? I think the answer is NO





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  • pani_6
    07-12 11:29 PM
    EB3-I..please print the attached word doc and sign and mail it to Department of state..this week

    Moderator could you makes this Sticky please

    Could somebody also post the adderess of USCIS please..





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  • Macaca
    05-27 05:46 PM
    The Next Great Resource Shortage: U.S. Scientists (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2074024,00.html) By ANDREW J. ROTHERHAM | Time

    The word "stem" is tossed around so much at education meetings these days, you'd think you were at a gardening seminar. STEM is shorthand for "science, technology, engineering, and mathematics" � all fields that are growing, providing lucrative jobs, and key to future American competitiveness. That's why everyone from President Obama to the United States Chamber of Commerce is worried about whether we're producing enough STEM graduates from our colleges and universities. That this is a problem is one of the few things that everyone in education seems to agree upon.

    Part of the push for better STEM education stems � sorry � from American companies claiming there are shortages of American workers able to take on certain roles. Each year, American technology and engineering firms push to expand the number of workers allowed under the "H-1B" visa program, a category that allows companies to hire foreigners in roles where they cannot find a qualified American citizen. Critics claim the H-1B program is more a ploy to allow companies to hire skilled workers cheaper.

    STEM anxiety is also an outgrowth of larger concerns about American competitiveness. The growing number of STEM workers in countries like China and India has policymakers on edge. You often hear that China and India are producing many more engineers than the United States, but when researchers from Duke University looked closely at the numbers, they found that what's counted as an engineering degree in those countries would often be considered a vocational certificate or two-year degree in this country. The Duke team found relative parity between the United States and China and India when the engineering comparison was apples to apples.

    And part of our STEM obsession is frankly just longtime habit. In the 1950s, it was Admiral Hyman Rickover calling for more math and science education as part of the effort to keep us competitive with the Soviets. Congress passed legislation to support math and science education in 1958 and advocates have been pushing for more ever since. Congress passed several STEM measures in just the last decade, including the 2007 America Competes Act, which includes measures to recruit and train teachers in STEM subjects.

    Still, debatable need, confused statistics, and force of habit doesn't mean there isn't an actual STEM problem facing the United States. American students should be doing better in math and science than they are now, and we are arguably producing too few college STEM majors. If the global competitiveness race turns into a numbers game, we're in trouble absent dramatic improvements: If it were its own country, the populations of China and India aged 14 and younger would each still be among the top five nations in the world in terms of population. That means that even marginal improvements in education in those countries will pay big dividends and put them on a stronger competitive footing. Besides, there is little doubt that our own economic future hinges in no small part on remaining a leader in innovation in science and technology.

    So we want more college graduates in STEM careers. How do we get them? Right now policymakers are fixated on upgrading the quality of the math and science teaching force through better recruitment and training. "Out-of-field" teachers � meaning those without proper training in the subject � remain an acute problem in math and science. Scholarships, loan-forgiveness, and even higher pay are all used to attract more teachers into STEM fields. More creative ideas are emerging, too. Math For America provides $100,000 fellowships for math teachers and Partners in Science gives science teachers the opportunity to undertake actual scientific work at national laboratories during the summer. All good ideas, but to some extent we're chasing our tail: Not enough STEM graduates means not enough STEM teachers, regardless of the incentives.

    The second answer is to expose students to STEM fields early on and use scholarships and inducements for them to choose STEM careers. This is where the STEM rhetoric meets our educational reality: A lot of students are not going into STEM careers today not because they're unaware of the choice, but rather because they cannot make that choice because of the quality of education they are receiving.

    Think about it. With high school graduation rates of only about 75 percent overall (and 64 percent for Hispanics and 62 percent for African-Americans) we lose a lot of potential STEM students long before college. At the same time, many students graduating from high schools are not taking the math and science courses necessary to pursue a STEM career. Experts estimate that only about one-third of graduating high school students are genuinely college-ready.

    Of course, not all currently underserved students would choose STEM careers either. People chose their work for a variety of reasons. Yet it's a reasonable assumption that some percentage of currently underserved students would choose STEM just as some percentage of more advantaged students do now. So rather than trying to squeeze a few more STEM students from populations that can already choose STEM if they want to, perhaps policymakers should focus even more on giving currently under-served populations the ability to make a STEM choice in the first place. If you're not taking the right classes � or worse, if you're not in school � STEM careers are not a viable choice for you. Fixing that seems the path to the richest untapped vein of future American talent.

    In other words, in the long term, the STEM agenda really isn't that different than the more general school improvement agenda. Linking the two more explicitly would also help make the push for STEM more relevant and engaging for parents than it is today. Because while education leaders can't shut up about STEM, it's hardly even on the radar of most parents � when they talk about stems they usually are talking about plants.


    The Right Job? It�s Much Like the Right Spouse (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/22/business/22corner.html) By ADAM BRYANT | New York Times
    The Downsized College Graduate (http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/05/24/the-downsized-college-graduate) The New York Times
    Top Colleges, Largely for the Elite (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/business/economy/25leonhardt.html) By DAVID LEONHARDT | The New York Times
    Five myths about America�s schools (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-americas-schools/2011/05/09/AFunW27G_story.html) By Paul Farhi | The Washington Post
    The Failure of American Schools (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2011/06/the-failure-of-american-schools/8497/) By Joel Klein | The Atlantic





    xyzgc
    12-26 06:17 PM
    Actually the best strategy will be to build up troops in Kandahar, completely in secrecy. Afghan govt can help India if India plays some deft diplomatic moves. Then hit Quetta by launching an attack from Kandahar. Pakistanis won't even know what hit them. They will be waiting for attack to come from their eastern border.

    Like this thread. I'm no defence strategist either but its good to read this.





    bfadlia
    01-09 06:15 PM
    The question is about common sense and not who said what... Israel might make mistakes but it has no need to bomb civilians or school compounds deliberately. It is a strong enough country that can wipe out the entire middle-east if it chose to but it does not do so probably because it isn't a failed state with an inferiority complex like most of its neighbors.

    a common sense guy like you would have dismissed iraqis claims of abuse in abu gharib.. america is a strong country, it doesn't need to molest prisoners..
    how luxurious for you to use ur common sense while victims still suffer after their stories were corobrated by unbiased witnesses



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